MBTT (Mind Body Training Tools) neurofeedback system, feedback ?
PeterNoc
PeterNoc
Hi All,
May I ask if anyone has any experience with MBTT by Glyn Blackett ?
It seems to be a convenient wrapper for BioEra.
Is it worth the money (if I do not have time to learn BioEra) ?
Please feel free to message me directly if for any reason you do not want your opinions to be public.
This is not a crypto-ad so I am not including the link.
Regards
Peter
Comments
Peter, hi.
It sounds like he sells a preferred type of amplifier with the software, described here:
https://www.mbttbiofeedback.co.uk/biofeedback-neurofeedback-devices
So I am not sure about your question. His system likely would require special adaptation to work with OpenBCI devices.
Regards, William
Hi William,
Thanks for responding.
On top of that, yes, if you need it.
But I just tried the free version, you can simply choose from the list, and the list is pretty much 5 or 6 that Bioera supports.
Including OpenBCI and Q-wiz, the 2 that I am most interested in.
This is really just a wrapper application for BioEra.
Regards
Peter
Sry, not sure how to crop a screenshot
Peter, thanks.
I would still check with Glyn Blackett (MBTT author), if intending to use any other biosensing platforms than the ones he recommends. I believe the menu you show is just inherited from the base BioEra, and may not imply that Glyn has tested MBTT with these other devices.
William
I can confirm now.
It is expected to work with both OpenBCI and PN Q-wiz and the EEG related part of it (assessment and training modules)
are indeed wrappers for BioEra.
I just got the full version and will start playing with it soon.
Hello, is this neurofeedback program well designed and does it work well for neurofeedback? I am interested in trying this as a beginner to neurofeedback.
Hi @anonymoose,
Glyn states on his website that his neurofeedback courses will be 'released' some time in 2025 (he projects.) I'm not sure if @PeterNoc got a copy before Glyn updated his release schedule. But it sounds like an unfinished / unsupported product.
Meanwhile there are neurofeedback apps you can use with OpenBCI Cyton and Ganglion. Such as the BioEra that Glyn's package is based on. Others are mentioned:
https://docs.openbci.com/Software/CompatibleThirdPartySoftware/BrainBay/
It is also possible that Pete van Deusen's Brain-Trainer system may work with OpenBCI. A previous version he had was based on BioEra, which is compatible. They have since promoted an in-house re-write which may be limited to the amps they sell from Neurobit.
https://brain-trainer.com/
Finally, an excellent resource for home neurofeedback is Cody Rall's material:
https://www.youtube.com/@CodyRallMD/videos
An advantage to the devices Rall lists, is that they are completely consumer home tech oriented: smart phone app, guided instructions, various training modules to choose from. All the other choices you have require considerably more tech knowledge without the hand holding.
Hi @anonymoose
Your best bet would be asking Glyn how large is the userbase.
I think this is a pretty nice niche application good to start experimenting with BioEra designs but you may have problems finding anyone using it for actual clinical practice.
I may be wrong though.
Email Glyn, he is really nice and pretty responsive guy.
Regards
Peter
@wjcroft Thank you so much for the recommendations. Brain-trainer 2 doesn’t work with the ganglion, which is what I have, but I’ve been told they will be coming out with an update next year that will allow compatibility with openbci devices again. Until then, I am looking for a consumer friendly neurofeedback suite (not muse/mendi/etc however).
@PeterNoc Would you mind telling me of your personal experience doing neurofeedback with this software?
I did not do any serious NF with it.
I used it mostly as an easy and user friendly wrapper for BioEra to play with.
The brutal reality of commercial NF is that even though the technology does work (I got my Nicotine addiction disappear after 1 session of ISF,
although this was not intended actually, more of a side effect), how well/bad this technology works depends on the operator's experience and their knowledge of human brain neuro-phisiology.
People with experience extensive enough to be be trusted, use systems with long history of development and large user base.
Large number (in my humble private opinion, I wish I was wrong here) of operators relay on Mailing Support groups set up by the Software/hardware product developers.
When things go wrong, they simply ask "What do I do with this problem ?" on the Mailing group or Telegram chat.
If you just play with NF just with yourself, and you are brave/adventurous enough to accept the risk of unwanted short-term side effect, you'll probably look at the price.
But if you think of doing NF on anyone else, chose reputable sw/hw provider with large user base and lots of experienced users to talk to.
Peter
P.S And, yes, I do of course know that ISF is not the common, well studied and understood form of NF,
but the rule of experience and knowledge apply to every form of it.
I seen questions on one of the groups so horribly silly and indicating a complete lack of basic knowledge and understanding,
while a quick googling of the name of the person asking it, lead to a very "professionally" (for a layman) looking website of
Neurofeedback practice
I see I see, thanks!
@anonymoose, hi again.
I would not 'brush off' the higher end systems that Dr. Cody Rall MD is mentioning. For example, he highly endorses the Myndlift system, which is based upon Muse, but uses an extra electrode and guided by an assessment process that the client performs.
https://www.myndlift.com/
He also was impressed with Sens.ai:
https://sens.ai/
Etc.
Another decent resource is this Reddit group:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Neurofeedback/
Regards, William
Another user on the Reddit group had coincidentally asked about MBTT a couple days ago,
https://www.reddit.com/r/Neurofeedback/comments/1og7rjm/mindbody_training_tools_for_home_nfb_training/
Thanks @wjcroft , I will look into some of them!