Brain training, Bioexplorer, BioEra, ...

kuteguykuteguy London
edited April 2018 in Software
Hi,

I am looking at OpenBCI as an option because it supports 16 channel, and has high-quality at a good price point. What would I need exactly to get started to do a brain map and then training? 

1. Cyton + Daisy Biosensing Boards (16-Channels)
2. Ultracortex "Mark IV" EEG Headset - pro-assembled, 16 channels
3. Muscle sensor?
4. Heart rate sensor?
5. Bio Era (looks like Bio Explorer still does not support OpenBCI)
6. wifi board when it becomes available
7. SD card and my own win 10 laptop

That's it? No need for additional electrodes? paste? 

Now what would we do once we have gotten a brain map (I guess using BioEra?)? I know with Pete he has his TLC suite or his service to provide you with a training plan .. but with OpenBCI? I mean buying the qwiz is the default backup option but looks like OpenBCI is a low newer, more powerful, and has more potential - but I am not technical enough (although a software engineer) to mess about with doing too much fiddling .. I want to get on with "fixing" myself ;-)

And once we have training plan can Bio Era be used to train the brain? Will all the games out there 

I am just trying to see the full picture here from start to "finish" and not buy into this system (a big investment) and then find I am locked out

Comments

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    Kute, hi.

    The Bioexplorer developer has told us that he has a Cyton driver in beta test. But it appears to be slow going. I asked him for a progress update or beta download link a week ago.

    Your best bet for home training is with Pete Van Deusen's Brain-Trainer protocols. While it would be possible to develop BioEra designs for home neurofeedback training, that is a huge hurdle given Pete's involvement in the field for decades. His system is used both for mapping and then selecting and using the appropriate protocols. He can also mentor you.

    Much EEG neurofeedback is done with only 2 or 4 channels. So the Daisy (16 channels) is not really a requirement, nor would it give you any advantage.

    I'll post an update on the forum here when I hear back from the Bioexplorer dev. I do recommend the Cyton over the Ganglion, the EEG chip on the Cyton (ADS1299) has advantages over Ganglion. And Cyton interfaces more easily over a serial port, which is why Bioexplorer has a driver almost ready. Bioexplorer Ganglion support could be farther off.

    Regards,

    William

  • kuteguykuteguy London
    Thanks that answers some of my questions. 

    so what you are saying here is to get the Cyton 8 channel (and not the daisy) with the mark iv cap (pro-assembled 8 channel)? and then once Bioexplorer has the Cyton driver then I can use Pete's protocols with just that setup? Furthermore I can either send him my brain map and/or get his TLC software to do the training plan myself.

    So I don't need to buy any additional wires, sensors for brain mapping and training? That is the part I am still unsure about.

    I understand I will still have to buy other software (games, etc) for training.
  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    Kute, hi.

    I just asked Larry Janow (Bioexplorer dev) if he has a link for the beta supporting Cyton. He was on vacation when I asked previously. I would hold off on ordering the Cyton until we have the latest Bioexplorer download link; and have a chance to test a bit with that.

    Pete's assessment procedure has you sample 4 channels at a time in multiple passes for the 10-20 sites he uses. It might be most straightforward to just use the cup electrodes and paste, as that is how Pete does his trainings and manual assessments. Pete does have an Electro-cap setup he uses with the Q-Wiz that somewhat automates the assessment. But you can do equally well with just manually positioning the cup electrodes. I would hesitate on recommending the Ultracortex with Pete's system, until there are more folks using that route. The direct paste / cup electrodes generally have lower noise and less movement artifact than the dry / Ultracortex system. Artifacts can both disturb the assessment and training.

    You should not need to buy additional 'games', as Pete's protocols use various feedback mechanisms such as audio or video modulations. A common training setup is to be watching a video or DVD that is brightness modulated by the training reward.

    William

  • chelobakachelobaka
    Hi William,

    Do you have any news on OpenBCI support in Bioexplorer?
  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    Larry seems to be in a mode where he is not replying to any emails. Others in the Yahoo group are also trying to get some response from him. I apologize. I thought we would have at least the Cyton beta release by now. He has it working in house. But may be delaying release until he has both Ganglion and Cyton supported. I keep telling him Cyton alone would be very helpful.


    William

  • chelobakachelobaka
    Thank you, William! There's no need to apologize. No good news is better than no news at all. Cython support alone would definitely be appreciated.
  • docdocdocdoc
    Does anyone know what is going on with Bioexplorer? Last I heard they
    had a beta driver for openBCI out in August last year. Does anyone have
    the beta driver? They don't respond to my emails.

    I bought this system on the hope of a Bioexplorer driver, but at this point it seems unlikely.

    Thanks for any information!
  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    edited April 2018
    @docdoc, hi.

    No. See previous posts. You can try emailing Larry via the Cyberevolution site. 

    BioEra does support both Cyton and Ganglion.

    Related thread here.


    Search buttons / box in right column.

    Regards,

    William

  • docdocdocdoc
    I've tried contacting Larry through Cyberevolution. Additionally I can't access their forum.

    Would anyone with access to the yahoo group care to act as surrogate and ask on our behalf?

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BioExplorer/info


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