Ganglion and neurofeedback with BioEra, Bioexplorer protocols
It's been said that the Ganglion board will work or is compatible with Bioera. Which is honestly great. However, when it's said that it's compatible does that mean it will be capable of handling everything an amp from say Pocket-Neurobics can handle? EEG-wise? Meaning will anyone test the hardware with Bioera and try braintraining certain protocols related to neurofeedback training? I know most of the people in here are interested in exploring their brainwaves and testing. Some of us like myself use tools for dealing with executive function related issues and deficits. Is there anyone who can test that the boards will perform well and not be buggy? What if there is a problem? Is anyone on OpenBCI's side going to try and fix it or will it be on Bioera's end? Cause I can see them not caring at all. Also would it be possible to have a new category for the users in the forum who are already training with Bioexplorer and Bioera? Who perhaps already use Pocket-Neurobics or other amps for dealing with focusing issues like ADHD? I personally would like to see that happen.
Comments
The current OpenBCI boards have BioEra support. And @jarek Foltynski (BioEra author) offers excellent customer support for adding new devices and responding to questions or fixes. I use Pocket-Neurobics gear as well as OpenBCI interchangably with the neurofeedback protocols I run; using various VPLs such as BioEra, Bioexplorer, neuromore, etc.
Larry Janow (Bioexplorer author) may eventually support the OpenBCI devices. Since the 8 channel OpenBCI runs at 250 samples/sec, it's not really feasible to emulate OpenEEG, which samples at 256 sps. There is another whole thread on the forum here which discusses this. However since Ganglion will run at 256, it will be likely to have OpenEEG emulation firmware at some point. That will give Bioexplorer compatibility without any additional effort from Janow; since it already supports OpenEEG.
Your best bet for proven home-training neurofeedback is Pete Van Deusen's system of Brain-Trainer protocols. This is Bioexplorer based. My guess also that with the neuromore community growing, there will eventually be ADHD trainings available for it in the future. A number of clinical grade systems such as LENS, Othmer Cygnet, etc., use BioEra as their base; but these are not conducive to home-training approaches without being a licensed healthcare practitioner. Of course it's possible to wire up your own training protocols with any of these VPLs; but the largest active community is with Van Deusen's system.
William
I know this is an old thread, but I thought I would provide an update. Pete does have his system now in BioEra available for purchase. It is still in beta phase, but available for purchase nonetheless. I have been using it over the past few months and it works well with both the Ganglion and Cyton boards. That said, these designs only support up to 4 channels. Another word of caution, although the Ganglion and Cyton have options for more than one reference, it is quite cumbersome to do. However, I find that a minor limitation, and I do give Pete's Brain-Trainer for Bioera (BT4BE) with OpenBCI products a high recommendation for people interested in doing neurofeedback.
Blake, that's great. So even though BT4BE is in beta, it can be purchased? Cost? Do previous owners of Pete's Bioexplorer protocol suite get any discounts? With that package, an owner could view and potentially modify the protocol designs. A valuable learning tool. Is this same access available for the BioEra version? Do you have a link for BT4BE info or docs?
Regards, William
Unlike BioExplorer, it appears as though the designs are password protected. Personally, I can respect that, so long as we can be given details on what each design is doing. I have been impressed with the transparency overall.
https://brain-trainer.com/product/brain-trainer-for-bioera/
WHOA. The Bioexplorer design package was only $275. BioEra version costs $900 ??
https://brain-trainer.com/product/brain-trainer-design-subscription/
https://brain-trainer.com/product/brain-trainer-for-bioera/
OK, I see now you can get just the protocols without assessment for $650, if you have purchased the $275 designs previously.
https://brain-trainer.com/product/brain-trainer-interface-for-bioera/
Dang, I can understand some increase, but this is a huge difference? Hiding the internal design to make learning and customization impossible, sad to see this. Have to say I'm disappointed. Pete's prices have gone up considerably over the years. I originally started using Brain-Trainer around 2008 with Bioexplorer and Pocket-Neurobics equipment. And the assessment was free at that time.
OK, my misunderstanding, the $900 price includes BioEra / license dongle. So $650 for BioEra protocols only. Does that include assessment TQ7? But it's NOT really just $650, since you need the $275 design subscription.
Does the $900 price (BioEra dongle plus designs), INCLUDE the $275 subscription, or is that an add-on?
No, the assessment tool is separate. It does include a handful of games, videos, and shadow function. All of which had to be bought separately before. But I can see that if you aren't interested in those "bells and whistles" it is a moot point.
Pete may be pricing himself out of the range of OpenBCI users, especially Ganglion owners. My understanding is that Bioexplorer developer Larry Janow, is no longer responding to emails or other requests for fixes or additions. So the long term direction for Brain-Trainer would seem to be BioEra.
I've long suggested to those here on the OpenBCI Forum, that Pete's BioEra version is the way to go. Chalk that up to over optimism. Maybe this economic reset now in progress, can change expectations in this era of billion dollar IPOs / unicorns, and insane corporate valuations.