Neurofeedback by Zukor games
Hello dear friends
I am student of psychology and i do not know much about eeg devices, but I got attracted to openbci for sure because of the price.
I need it for neurofeedback. But as far as i have seen there is not something special application.
today i sent an Email to Zukor company that seems is one of the best for neurofeedback games. They said our games work on OpenVibe so it should work by openbci also.
I wanted to know it is possible or someone has experience with it? I think if we do it, the problem of many people will be solved.
Thank you all
Comments
Hi Cloud,
You can find numerous posts about neurofeedback with OpenBCI, by using the "Google Advanced Search" button in the upper right column, for example:
https://www.google.com/search?as_q=neurofeedback&as_sitesearch=openbci.com
Similarly for OpenViBE,
https://www.google.com/search?as_q=openvibe&as_sitesearch=openbci.com
Generally OpenViBE is less geared to neurofeedback applications than other packages such as BioEra, BrainBay, neuromore, etc. OpenViBE is more typically used for BCI, Brain Computer Interface projects.
Pete Van Deusen's Brain-Trainer suite will soon be supported by BioEra, which works with OpenBCI devices.
https://brain-trainer.com/
Pete's protocol suite is your best option for neurofeedback with OpenBCI. I'm not sure of the timing on the release of the BioEra support, but it is imminent. Certainly early 2020.
The 'Zukor' software you mention is a "gamification add-on" for existing neurofeedback software such as Brainmaster, EEGer, etc. It does not do neurofeedback protocol assessment or training on it's own. While it is true that it may work with OpenViBE, it would require substantial work in developing your own neurofeedback protocols / suite. You would be better off going with Pete's system. Basically the Zukor software runs as a parallel process along with the neurofeedback suite, and as the neurofeedback protocol is run (with various 'reward' / 'inhibit' based band training strategies) -- the parallel neurofeedback package feeds a stream of data to Zukor asking for corresponding gamification action on the screen. For example increase the speed of a car as the reward increases. Or increasing smoke or fog as the inhibit channel increases. Etc. This requires some advanced knowledge in how to incorporate gamification into existing neurofeedback protocols.
You cannot use Zukor by itself as a neurofeedback system. You can see this from their website,
http://zukor.com/interactive/games.html
https://www.google.com/search?q=zukor+games+manual
Regards, William
Thanks a lot William for your great clarification
But when i look at the prices of BioEra and Brain-training, I would prefer to buy a product from thought technology or brainmaster, cheapest and much more reliable, they have been used for lots of articles and have a strong base.
But i think for this situation that we are now is a good option. but I do not know about the putative problem to run and...
i do not know honestly what to buy and do!
Brainmaster is 'cheapest'? Perhaps their older 2 channel Atlantis amplifiers. But in general their hardware and software pricing is some of the highest in the field. They also have a very fine grained software license key system, with each additional feature set. Which can add up. I would also question your assessment of Brainmaster and Thought Tech as being "much more reliable". In general any neurofeedback package is going to be supported by the manufacturer and user community. Pete's Brain-Trainer has an exceptional user community and support network specifically targeted for home trainers. Other systems do not have this specialization for home training.
With Pete's protocol suite, you get the complete "source code" of his protocols and assessment technology. Which is invaluable if you want to see how to construct your own protocols or make modifications. Pete's protocols can run with as little as two or four channels. Meaning just about any amplifier, and both Ganglion and Cyton satisfy this. You do not need a large 'headset' to run neurofeedback.
https://brain-trainer.com/about/integrated-protocol-system/
I do note that Brain-Trainer product list and bundled 'packages' have increased pricing over the years. Many times they would prefer to sell a bundled set with the Pocket-Neurobics Q-Wiz amplifier, Bioexplorer, protocol suite, TQ7, cap, etc. In past years it was possible to use just any 2 or 4 channel amp supported by Bioexplorer, and the non-automated assessment instructions were included in the protocol suite. At that time TQ7 was optional. It appears that has changed, and TQ7 is now the only assessment option.
There is no equivalent of the Brain-Trainer assessment / protocol suite for home trainers, anywhere else that I know of in the home training field. Yes, there are QEEG assessment packages available for Brainmaster and other clinical neurofeedback systems, but these cost multiple times what Brain-Trainer is charging. This is because you need an amp such as the 20 / 24 channel Discovery to record a full cap 19 channel assessment, plus some way to run QEEG normative database maps. Discovery amps start at around $6600. QEEG mapping products are also in the +$5K range.
you persuaded me to wait, and it seems to be base on logic, but i need this system by openvibe for my thesis now
Do you think if i just buy a game i can handle it ?
is it difficult setting up?
Your original post did not state that the neurofeedback was for a thesis project, versus actually using it for home training to address a desired neurofeedback goal for yourself or a friend. There is a substantial difference here. Generally for home training or clinical training, you want to do an assessment first to determine beneficial protocols tailored to the client's needs. Otherwise you are shooting in the dark.
However for a thesis project, you could chose a goal that is targeted at an end result that is not dependent on an incoming client condition / brain map.
It is unclear to me WHY you are needing the Zukor gamification framework. Typical neurofeedback protocols utilize visual or auditory feedback that does not not require sophisticated "road racing" or "space travel" types of feedback. Almost any feedback strategy can work, it does not have to look like a science fiction or action movie.
As mentioned before, OpenViBE is not geared towards neurofeedback / biofeedback usage. But rather BCI projects. I would suggest you take a look at this BrainBay tutorial to get a feel for how VPL apps work. Then you could use any VPL framework for building your protocol: BrainBay, BioEra, neuromore, National Instruments LabVIEW, NeuroPype, etc. I seem to recall that neuromore had 3D visualizations built into the feedback options.
https://sites.google.com/site/biofeedbackpages/brainbay-openbci
Regards, William