channels 9-16 railing, y-cable issue?

edited March 2018 in Cyton

Hello,

I notice that channels 9-16 report a
continuous Railing condition (1-8 are fine). After searching around I
see multiple instructions about a Y cable for the SRB2 connection
(between the 2 boards).

I have tried with and without the Y
connection and see no difference in result.

When having this combo is the Y cable
connection still required for Srb2?

Purchased the Daisy add as an add on in
December 2017. What am I mis-understanding?

Thank you

«1

Comments

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    Sounds like your Y-cable is not working. Have you checked it with an ohmmeter? Your ear reference should connect to the SRB2's on both mainboard and daisy. Check continuity of all your cables.

    There might also be a bad solder connection on the daisy or cyton header pins that connect the boards. Did you solder these yourself or did the daisy come pre-soldered?
  • Hello,

    I'm using a clip lead (and it checks out with an ohmmeter), using the clip lead I have enough room on the pin to also plug in my ear clip. Also (see below), I believe my board came pre-soldered.




    Inquiry on Daisy Board:
    OpenBCI (OpenBCI, Inc)

    Jan 8, 11:42 EST

    Hi David,

    Your Daisy doesn't have that issue.

    Best,
    Alex

    Dslack
    Dslack

    Jan 3, 17:40 EST

    Hi Alex,

    I noticed the following link (dated 12/3/2014) below:


    Would you be able to tell me if I need to apply this re-work to the Daisy board I just purchased or has this been fixed (now that it is 2018)?

    Also, if this is more of a question for the Forum please let me know and I'll re-submit there.

    Best Regards,
    David Slack
    Slack Consulting
    480.639.5344
  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    edited March 2018
    No rework is needed. That was only for the initial board run in 2014.

    Email contact at openbci.com and ask for suggestions. Mentioning @openbci.
  • Please allow me to clarify: The Y cable scenario is still required. Yes?
  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    Yes, Y cable is always used with daisy. I assume you found the other threads,

  • Yes I did find the other threads. I will use the email contact suggestion you mentioned earlier to see if there are any suggestions.

    Thank you for the assist!
  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    Be sure you are using the SRB pins closest to the boards, SRB2.
  • Yes using the closest pin on each board.
  • edited March 2018
    Sorry you are having all these troubles!

    Any updates here?

    Could you try using the GUI and sending a test signal by pressing the '[' key to cause a square wave to be generated on both boards. I am interested to see if there if the ADS1299 on the Daisy is working properly.

    Thanks!
  • Hello Pushtheworld,

    I have tried this test with and without the Y cable and get the same result when pressing the '[' key from the Gui. I get a sign wave across all 16 channels.
    Based on the test it sound like the Daisy/Cyton combination is working properly? Which is good.
    If need be I can send along the screen shots (to confirm the proper wave form), just do not see a method to attach here.
  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    Slack, hi.

    Can you confirm, your 9-16 channels are working ok with electrodes on the head? Or is it just the '[' test that works?

    William

  • Hello wjcroft,

    To confirm: The results I was making reference to was for the '[' test only. I continue to see the Railed result on channel's 9-16 with the electrodes on the head.
  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    This is sounding like a bad SRB2 connection on the Daisy. Yet you have verified that your Y-cable connecting both SRB2's, tests out ok with an ohmmeter. Is it possible that the cable is "intermittent". That is, works in some positions, but fails in others. (Because one of the connectors has a loose connection to the wire inside.)

    Did you wiggle the wires and connectors around while you were testing your Y-cable? Did you try switching the two ends of the Y-cable around? (Swap between mainboard and Daisy connectors?)

    William

  • Yes I wiggled, disconnected reconnected the Y cable connections and got the same result. I also soldered up a new Y cable (tested the cable to confirm it is good), the replaced the old Y cable with the new one and I get the same result.
  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    Did you email with contact at openbci.com for suggestions? What did they say?

    Do you live in a cold climate with static electricity sparks? Is it possible the board got zapped? It's sounding more like something is odd on the Daisy board. Yet the ADS1299 chip on the Daisy does produce test signals. Have you checked the surface of the Daisy to ensure there are no foreign objects or metallic contaminants shorting out pins?
  • Yes on 3/7 I sent an email to contact@openbci and received a reply stating I had opened case#: 6726 but nothing since. I also sent a follow up email on 3/13, checking on my inquiry, and have not received a reply.

    We are located in Arizona (so not a cold climate) and I do not see any contaminants shorting out the pins.
  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    Mentioning @openbci, Joel @biomurph and AJ @pushtheworld. I think a phone call might be appropriate, since your emails are not getting replies. We've tried a number of tests in this thread, it seems like you are doing everything right with the Y-cable, and the ADS1299 on the Daisy produces test signal (with AJ's suggestion).

    One more test you can try: connect all three leads together ON THE DAISY, no Y-cable, all pins closest to board: (channel 1, SRB2, Bias). Doing this test on the mainboard would produce close to zero microvolts on that channel. Doing it on the Daisy alone will confirm that your Daisy pins are working, since we are not using your Y-cable in this case.

    William
  • biomurphbiomurph Brooklyn, NY
    @slackconsulting

    We are getting back to you on the email thread that you started with us.
    Based on the photo that you shared there, you are not connecting the electrodes correctly to the system.
    Your electrodes 9-16 are connected to the Cyton top row of pins. They should be connected to the Daisy bottom row of pins.

  • Hello Biomurph,

    I just consulted the picture I sent to you. To be clear: the picture shows my connection on pins (closest to the board) on the Daisy and the Cyton. 

    Do I have the correct understanding, based on your comments:
    Daisy: I should use the pin furthest from the board? (Yes/No)
    Cyton: I should use the pin furthest from the board? (Yes/No)
  • edited March 2018
    Do I have the correct understanding, based on your comments:
    Daisy: I should use the pin furthest from the board? (No)
    Cyton: I should use the pin furthest from the board? (No)
  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA
    David Slack, hi. Whew. Can you upload the photo Joel mentioned to Google Drive so we can all see? Include any other relevant photos.

    William

  • edited March 2018
    Hi David,

    I responded via email. You should get two emails from [email protected].

    Try this set-up:

    1) The electrodes should be connected to the bottom pins of each board
    2) The Y-cable should be on the bottom SRB pins of both the Daisy and Cyton
    3) One ear clip electrode should be on the bottom BIAS pin of the Cyton
    4) You can have colored leads on bottom pins N1P through N8P on the Cyton
    5) Daisy bottom pins N1P through N8P should have colored leads as well

    Images below illustrate what the configuration looks like once set up.
  • Hello Wjcroft, Would be happy to. To which Google drive are you referring to? I do not use Google drive.
  • Wow nice write up @Shirley

    You should make a PR to the docs :p
  • Hello Shirley, I have looked at the attachments in both emails & the links to the images you have provided. These pictures all show the connection (on both Cyton & Daisy closest to the board) which is what I have and show in the picture I sent. Please take another look at that. 

    If need be I can take another picture and send to contact @openbci.com (with the new Y cable I made) perhaps this will also help.
  • Okay issue resolved. I double checked
    the pictures Shirley & Pushtheworld sent and looked at my
    configuration and could clearly see I needed to move my wiring to
    pins 9-16 on the Daisy board (previously attached to pins on the
    Cyton), the Y cable was in the proper position.

    Thank you (everyone) for the
    assistance!



    All 16 channels now reporting.

  • @slackconsulting

    Could you please provide some feedback into what learning resources you used that failed to provide the proper pictures for you such that the docs can be update?

    Also it was all @Shirley!
  • Hi Pushtheworld,


    I set this up back in 01/18 & used the resources from the links provided in the Shop section of the Openbci page (directed me to the Openbci Learning pages). After doing the initial wiring/setup I got busy with other projects and only re-visited recently; however, when I have more time I plan on documenting the proper set I used (so this learning experience does not get lost).

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