issues with my 2 Cyton dongles / speller apps [resolved]

etcetc Italy
edited March 13 in General Discussion

Sorry for my bad English!
I have 2 Cyton and I have 2 Dongle (I call these items: Cyton1, Cyton2, Dongle1, Dongle2) . I worked very well with the Cyton1 - Dongle1. I see on PC that Dongle1 uses the COM4 and I see FTDI driver installed.
Now, I try to work with Cyton2 - Dongle2: Dongle2 uses COM2 and I see FTDI driver installed. OPENBCI gui doesn't connect with Cyton2.
Then if I work with Cyton2- Dongle1, OPENBCI gui connects with Cyton2!
Some suggestions? Can I use on the same PC, only one for time, 2 Dongle?
Thank you very much!
Ettore

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Comments

  • retiututretiutut Louisiana, USA

    Hey there,

    The Cyton and Dongle acts like a two-way radio.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-way_radio

    Conventional radios operate on fixed RF channels. In the case of radios with multiple channels, they operate on one channel at a time. The proper channel is selected by a user. The user operates a channel selector (dial or buttons) on the radio control panel to pick the appropriate channel.

    This means the the Cyton and Dongle need to be on the same channel. You can use the AUTOCONNECT button or Manual -> AUTOSCAN in the GUI to align the channels. Only one dongle and one Cyton should be powered on when trying to connect.

    Take Care,
    RW

  • etcetc Italy

    Thank you very much for your answer!
    And sorry for my bed English!!!
    1) I try to connect in one time ONLY one dongle and one Cyton.
    2) If I try to connect Cyton2 and Dongle 2, I see that GUI indicates to me COM2. If I click on COM2 and after on Start Session, Gui shows to me for 5 seconds "Starting session" and after ... doesn't connect;
    3) In this condition (Cyton2 and Dongle2) , if I try to use Autoscan, before asks to me to select a serial/COM port. I select COM2, and after 5 seconds I get the message "Comunication timeout. Device failed to poll host"
    4) In this condition (Cyton2 and Dongle2), If I try to use Autoconnect button, I see "Starting session" for 5 seconds and then ... NOTHING!!!
    Some suggestion?
    Thank you!

  • retiututretiutut Louisiana, USA

    Sometimes you may need to restart the Cyton. GUI 5.0.3 is very stable and works for all users when FTDI driver is installed.

  • etcetc Italy

    Thank you for your attention! You are very gentle.
    I installed GUI 5.0.3. Something is changed: but not better!
    1) If I try to connect Cyton2 and Dongle 2, I see that GUI indicates to me COM2. If I click on COM2 and after on Start Session, Gui shows to me"Starting session", but not for 5 seconds as with the old version GUI! For ever and ever and I have to stop GUI;
    2) In this condition (Cyton2 and Dongle2) , if I try to use Autoscan, before asks to me to select a serial/COM port. I select COM2, and after 10 seconds I get the message "Failed to connect COM2. Check hardware or try press Autoscan" ;
    3) In this condition (Cyton2 and Dongle2), If I try to use Autoconnect button, I see "Starting session" for 10 seconds and then "Unable to connect to Cyton Please check hardware and power source".

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    Richard, thanks.

    Ettore, hi. When did you purchase these Cyton's? Has the SECOND Cyton+Dongle ever worked since your purchase arrived? As Richard mentions, you need to turn off the FIRST Cyton+Dongle before trying out the second one. Because it sounds like you may have a radio channel conflict.

    Regards, William

  • etcetc Italy
    edited March 4

    Thank you!
    My English is very very bad!!!
    Cyton2 and Dongle2 are the name that I am using to indicate the second Cyton and the second dongle.
    Cyton1 and Dongle1 are the name that I am using to indicate the first Cyton and the first Dongle.
    When I try to use Cyton2 + Dongle2, I have my Cyton1 and Dongle1 turn off!
    I try only one Cyton+Dongle in one time! I dont'need to work in the same time with 2 cyton and 2 dongle.
    The problem is:
    Cyton1 + Dongle1 work well. (I see COM4)
    Cyton2 + Dongle2 doesn't work. (I see COM2)
    Cyton2 + Dongle1 work well. (I see COM4)
    Some suggestion?
    Thank you
    Ettore

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    Ettore, hi.

    WHEN did you purchase the 1st Cyton, and the 2nd Cyton?

    By your description, the two Cyton's are using the same radio channel. (Which is a problem you must correct.) Did the Cyton2 and Dongle2 AT ANY TIME IN THE PAST ever work correctly? If the Cyton2 was recently ordered, and never worked, you may have a bad dongle.

    William

  • etcetc Italy

    Thank you, William!
    Cyton2 and Dongle2 began to work only 7 days ago. In the past months I worked only with Cyton1+Dongle1. And I worked well, very well.
    This is because I used Cyton1 + Dongle1 to work with EEG Electrode Cap. Then, in these last 7 days I wanted to use Cyton2+Dongle2 with the Ultracortex Mark IV and the new ThinkPulse™ Active Electrodes. And Cyton2+ Dongle2 didn't work.
    To test Ultracortex Mark IV and the new ThinkPulse™ Active Electrodes I had to work with Cyton2 and Dongle1: the connection is good (but there are other problems; not on the connection...!).
    Thank you.
    Ettore

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    Please answer each of these questions.

    OK. You state that the Cyton2 was a recent purchase in the last month?

    Cyton2+Dongle2 has NEVER worked? (This assumes you have turned off and unplugged Cyton1 and Dongle1.)

    If this is the case, you may have received a bad Dongle2.

  • retiututretiutut Louisiana, USA
    edited March 4

    @wjcroft Sounds possible. The errors that were shared earlier suggest serious problems sending/receiving basic commands and responses over the Serial port (aka Dongle2).

    "Comunication timeout. Device failed to poll host"
    "Unable to connect to Cyton Please check hardware and power source"
    "Failed to connect COM2. Check hardware or try press Autoscan"

    FTDI driver is working if the device is showing, but that does not guarantee that data can be received/sent.

  • etcetc Italy

    No at both the questions!
    I bought all the my OPENBCI items in 2 rounds: in the first moment, an year ago, I bought on second hand a lot of items in Europe. And at end of 2020 I bought other products from OPEBCI shop on internet.
    The 4 items ( Dongle1, Dongle2, Cyton1, Cyton2) were bought in Europe an years ago. And I used, as I said before,only Cyton1 + Dongle1. To test the new item bought in dicember (ThinkPulse™ Active Electrodes) I began to use Dongle 2 and Cyton2.
    As I said before, and now I swear on the bible, when I use Cyton2+Dongle2, I turn off and ... put in another room Cyton1 and Dongle1!
    Dongle1 works with Cyton2.
    Thank you and ... sorry for my English!

  • retiututretiutut Louisiana, USA

    It sounds like every piece of gear is functional except for Dongle2. I would like to see if @wjcroft agrees.

    Thank you for bearing with us to provide the requested information @etc!

  • etcetc Italy

    Thank you to you, @retiutut and to you @wjcroft!
    I am glad also if only Dongle1 works well. My project is for my daughter, Laura,a disabled girl: I will that she can use BCI, P300 speller, to communicate. The first milestone was achieved: I had to write a word only with EEG with BCI P300 speller (Openvibe) and 10 days ago I wrote my first word, with OpenBCI (EEG Electrode Cap, Cyton1 and Dongle1) + Openvibe !!! Now, I am going to try with Laura!
    Thank you very much!
    Ettore

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    Ettore, OK, I wish that you had tested Cyton2 WITH Dongle2 last year when you first purchased both Cyton's. It is always a good idea to verify stuff you purchase works immediately on receiving it. That way defective items can be replaced under warranty. Typical warranties have time limits.

    I suggest that Ettore email to support at openbci.com, and ask how to get a working Dongle2. Include a link to this Forum thread. Also reference your invoice and purchase date.

    Since you DID purchase a lot of OpenBCI equipment, sending out a spare dongle should not be too much to ask. You do have another option, if that does not work. Because spare dongles are listed in the store.

    https://shop.openbci.com/collections/frontpage/products/dongle?variant=28574533379

    Mentioning @openbci.

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    My project is for my daughter, Laura, a disabled girl: I will that she can use BCI, P300 speller, to communicate. The first milestone was achieved: I had to write a word only with EEG with BCI P300 speller (Openvibe) and 10 days ago I wrote my first word, with OpenBCI (EEG Electrode Cap, Cyton1 and Dongle1) + Openvibe !!! Now, I am going to try with Laura!

    There is a MUCH IMPROVED speller now available, from MindAffect. I would suggest using that instead of the P300 based spellers.

    https://github.com/mindaffect
    https://github.com/mindaffect/smart-keyboard

    William

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    Oops, I'm just re-reading your statement:

    I bought on second hand a lot of items in Europe.

    So your Cyton's were not purchased from OpenBCI directly. In that case your best option is the replacement dongle in the shop. Mentioning @openbci.

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    I suggest that Ettore email to support at openbci.com, and ask how to get a working Dongle2. Include a link to this Forum thread. Also reference your invoice and purchase date.

    If it is true you purchased second hand, then there is no need to email support. As OpenBCI cannot cover such sales. Unless they might be angels. ;-) Your project with your daughter does indeed sound inspirational.

  • etcetc Italy

    Ok! Thank you.
    The problem is the cost of the shipment in Europe. If I have to buy some other Items, I will ask what you suggested to me!
    Thank you!
    Ettore

  • etcetc Italy

    Thank you, @wjcroft! I will give a look to MindAffect!!!

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    If these Cytons + Dongles were purchased used in Europe, then WHEN were they originally purchased? Do you know? It's remotely possible that the original owners tried a firmware upgrade, but gave up on Dongle2, or never bother completing both Dongles.

  • etcetc Italy

    I don't think. But, if he tried un upgrade or not, the problem is the same!

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    You don't understand.

    WHEN were the original Cyton boards purchased? Do you have that date?

    If the Dongle2 is running old dongle firmware, then it will not work with Cyton2. This is assuming Cyton2 was updated, but Dongle2 was not.

  • etcetc Italy

    Thank you!
    I think that the date is recent because, as I see in a openbci-youtube, the Cyton has female connectors already mounted on AVSS and AVDD. And I read that this is only of the recent boards.

  • etcetc Italy

    Now, I cat try to update the firmware of Dongle2. How can I do? The gui doesn't work with Dongle2...

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    This is the section for reprogramming the RFduino on the dongle. You can skip over the previous sections on programming the Cyton mainboard RFduino. As we know that your Cyton2 is working fine with Dongle1 and the GUI. That means Cyton2 mainboard RFduino is working properly with current firmware.

    https://docs.openbci.com/docs/02Cyton/CytonRadios#uploading-host-firmware-to-the-openbci-dongle

  • etcetc Italy

    Thank you! I'll going to try!!!

  • etcetc Italy

    No. I made all the the indications. It is the same, same errors.
    Dear Wjcroft, you were very gentle with me. Thank you! For me it is not a problem: I have Dongle1 that works. And works well with Cyton1 (that I connected to the Cap, and Cap with wet electrodes works very well).
    Dongle2 is connected to Cyton2 and Cyton2 is connected to the Ultracortex Mark IV and the new ThinkPulse™ Active Electrodes;
    Ultracortex Mark IV and the new ThinkPulse™ Active Electrodes works very very bad. I think because the dry electrodes are worse than wet ones.
    Thank you!!!

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    Ettore, thanks. Can you clarify? So you went through all the steps to re-flash the Dongle2 firmware? Did all the steps of the firmware upgrade procedure work correctly?

    As you have said previously, even if Dongle2 is failing, you can still use Cyton2 with Dongle1, since they all share the same channels.

    Regarding tips on how to adjust the ThinkPulse, please see this other recent thread below. That user was able to get it working.

    https://openbci.com/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/2869/thinkpulse-active-electrodes-q-a-resolved

  • etcetc Italy

    About the problem for ThinkPulse I got the same suggestions by email. And I made all the indications.
    It is a different problem. Dongle2 doesn't work. Think pulse works but very very bad (before and after the indications) . When I go to analyze (Matllab-eeglab-erplab) the waves got with think pulse, these waves are not enough to get the P300.
    I bought an year ago on second hand a lot of items, and one of these is Dongle2. I got some very good items, and ... one bad: the Dongle2!
    I bought in Dicember by Openvibe-shop the Cap and the Think pulse: the first is very very good, the second no.
    This is the life!
    ps Ten days ago I read on the Openvibe-website that the wet electrodes are very very better than the dry ones. But I read this note only ten days ago and not in november...

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