Giving away a Cyton + Ultracortex Mark 3 to good home [completed]
[Please read Taran's first post on the thread below, THEN SKIP over my conversation with him. He is still looking for someone inherit his Ultracortex 3 and Cyton. In your comment that you post to the thread, mention how / why you would use it.]
Hello, all!
Long story short: Years ago, I requested the parts to build the OpenBCI Ultracortex Mark 3, to make a video review that would appear on the Linus Tech Tips YouTube channel. I said that if I couldn't make the review, I would send back the parts.
Unfortunately, I bit off more than I could chew. Getting the Mark 3 working on the software side of things was beyond my abilities.
I offered to return the parts, plus a restocking fee, but [email protected] told me that instead, I should "make a post to the forum, saying that you have secondhand OpenBCI devices and can ship them to someone if they cover the cost of shipping."
However, my company will likely cover shipping for the USA and Canada, making it effectively free.
Here are the parts:
Cyton Biosensing board
USB dongle
6V AA battery pack
8 dry EEG electrodes
2 Ear clips
Gold cup electrodes (already cut to length)
Plus all the 3D printed stuff, if you want it. (pictured)
https://imgur.com/a/phhK0lg
The entire thing is fully functional (at least last time I tried it) but will have to be re-assembled.
Now, I'm not sure WHO to give this to. It shouldn't necessarily just go to the first person to respond to this post. I want it to be someone who really needs it and will appreciate it; maybe some starry-eyed kid who's been saving up their pennies to get their first BCI thingy. I don't know. I'd appreciate you guys' help in figuring out who this should go to.
Thanks!
Taran
Comments
Taran, hi.
I'm WAY impressed with your short impromptu and light hearted segment from 2018 on LTT, "Linus Tech Tips INSANE Studio Tour!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=272&v=pIs77g86WhA
You know, there are some more recent tools available now,
https://openbci.com/community/mindaffect-releases-open-source-bci-software/
Would you be up for trying that?
Regards, William (OpenBCI Forum moderator)
Thanks!
Does that tool work with the Mark 3 that I already have?
My plan for the video was to make the BCI helmet be able to send 6 commands:
Move mouse left, right, up, and down, left click, and right click.
Then I'd also have an on-screen keyboard in case I needed to type anything. I was going to use this to animate a stick figure using his own head to shoot a basket in basketball, and declare that it was "the first animation ever made using a brain computer interface." (I don't know if that would actually be true.)
Then, I was even going to use the BCI helmet to edit the entire video... perhaps saving that for a surprise at the end... but more likely, it'd be in the title, "I edited this video with my mind" or something. And I'd talk about how long it took, and how this now represents the worst possible scenario, and how it'll only get faster from here... one day, making mice and keyboards look slow and obsolete.
Sadly, I'm not even sure if such a video would get much of a response. We did a video about BCI on Tech Quickie, and it under-performed, getting less than half the usual views:
Taran, thanks.
Yes, the MindAffect toolkit just needs some electrodes positioned at the rear of the head (occipital lobe), which the Ultracortex 3 has positions for. Watch this short National Geographic video segment, recorded at the MindAffect headquarters.
https://www.mindaffect.nl/
While you and Linus feature the older tech "P300 Spellers" in your "Tech Quickie: Can you control a computer with your MIND?" video - This newer MindAffect system is vastly faster and easier to use. The user sees a standard layout computer keyboard displayed on the screen. Each key is flashing with a particular unique 'coded' pattern. The MindAffect package then determines what key you are looking at, and 'types' that letter. The name for this technology is 'cVEP', code-based Visual Evoked Potentials.
Yes, you could do a simpler key layout such as that, with only 4 direction buttons and 2 left / right buttons. But my impression is that the full alpha keyboard is a much more impressive demo. Since the person can type anything they want.
Best regards, William
Oof - watching the videos, I know that that particular system will NOT work for what I have in mind.
Each letter takes about 2-3 seconds to type. If I make a "left" command that moves the cursor by 200 pixels, It would take 19 seconds just to move across ONE of my screens. And even then, it wouldn't have nearly enough granularity to be able to do anything useful. Nor could I click and drag, by "holding down" a virtual left mouse button while moving the cursor.
Also, does this really require the user to look directly at the letters?
Surely, if the user has control of their eyes, eye tracking would be vastly superior to this. Then I could make left eye blink = left click, and right eye blink = right click.
What I want from a BCI is for it to be able to detect a certain kind of thought / electrical activity that I can then output to: "As long as this thought exists, move the cursor LEFT." And so on for the other cardinal directions. I need the equivalent of Windows' "cursor keys" https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000542.htm where I can "hold down" any of the directions for as long or as short a time as I like.
Is THAT possible?
OK, sorry from distracting from the original intention of your thread here. I just wanted to show you a fairly current example of what cVEP BCI can do. In case you or Linus may be interested. I did not realize you had already done a BCI segment, and considered it a 'bomb'. ;-)
Generally BCI interfaces are for those with impairments, thus the technology is not capable of what a video editor / programmer would consider their essential toolkit. The bandwidth and bits per second are just not there yet using EEG. Perhaps Musk is aiming in that direction, 10 years down the road. ;-) He is also a consummate showman and knows how to feed his fans what they want to hear. (The real life Tony Stark, etc.) ;-)
No, that aspect of the recent videos by MindAffect I think was added, just to 'convince' skeptics that the operator was actually 'doing' something. Versus the demo scenario being entirely faked / scripted. In my opinion the head turning was a mistake, and distracts from the way the tech really works.
No, BCI is not capable of "thought detection". There is too much 'noise' in the EEG signal. However some BCI systems can track emotional state, degree of focus, concentration, etc. But not 'mental commands'.
So, from this point in the thread, please anyone interested in receiving this Ultracortex 3 plus Cyton, please respond below.
Best regards, William
[Below is is a repost of Taran's initial comment / request on this thread. Please ignore previous comments, and reply to his request, he is still looking for someone to inherit his Ultracortex 3 and Cyton. In your comment that you post to the thread, mention how / why you would use it.]
Hello, all!
Long story short: Years ago, I requested the parts to build the OpenBCI Ultracortex Mark 3, to make a video review that would appear on the Linus Tech Tips YouTube channel. I said that if I couldn't make the review, I would send back the parts.
Unfortunately, I bit off more than I could chew. Getting the Mark 3 working on the software side of things was beyond my abilities.
I offered to return the parts, plus a restocking fee, but [email protected] told me that instead, I should "make a post to the forum, saying that you have secondhand OpenBCI devices and can ship them to someone if they cover the cost of shipping."
However, my company will likely cover shipping for the USA and Canada, making it effectively free.
Here are the parts:
Plus all the 3D printed stuff, if you want it. (pictured)
https://imgur.com/a/phhK0lg
The entire thing is fully functional (at least last time I tried it) but will have to be re-assembled.
Now, I'm not sure WHO to give this to. It shouldn't necessarily just go to the first person to respond to this post. I want it to be someone who really needs it and will appreciate it; maybe some starry-eyed kid who's been saving up their pennies to get their first BCI thingy. I don't know. I'd appreciate you guys' help in figuring out who this should go to.
Thanks!
Taran
Hi!
First of all, I am a huge fan of the show!
Please allow me to briefly introduce myself and the personal project I am working on. I am a mechatronics engineer with a like for soft robotics and I’ve been trying to get my hands on a Cyton + Ultracortex kit for some time now. I’ve been learning and working with soft robotics to build prototypes for both prosthetics and orthotics, in my own home for now. The goal is to be able to have some degree of control of these hardware components, either for limb “replacement” or for strength and dexterity augmentation. There are a number of advantages of soft robotics over the traditional approach, but some of the main goals are to integrate these machines with the addition of features such as movement prediction and “muscle memory” training that will hopefully allow to optimize the control, ease of use and accessibility of such with the help of brain computer interfaces.
Naturally, these are huge steps but this is the project I have been working on for a while and would very much like to watch it evolve and become a useful contribution to society. I live in Mexico and the exchange rate from pesos to dollars, as well as the status of our economy, make this hardware somewhat prohibitive. I’ve been saving to try to get my hands in one of these but unfortunately it is a huge cost for a guy like me. I would GREATLY appreciate if you could consider me for your hardware and allow me to continue with the development of this project, as it would be a dream come true!
Please let me know if you would like to have more information about myself or the project.
Thank you in advance and best regards!
Eric Perusquia
Now, that does sound like a worthy cause, Eric! Yeah, I'd like some more info. And do you have any pictures?
@taranlmg, hi. Can you post an update when you've decided?
For anyone reading, you can send a PM Private Message to anyone on the forum, by clicking on their blue username, then the Message button.
Regards, William
Hello!
My name is Manuel and I'm currently a post grad student in Bolivia. With a group of students in my university (Universidad Católica Boliviana) we founded a NeurotechX Student Club about a year ago. Right now, our goal is to learn and train others in the use of Neurotechnology, and as you might guessed, we don't have access to many specialized hardware because is very expensive. Even low cost wearable technology is hard to get here. Thanks to the NeurotechX initiative we got access to a Ganglion board which has been amazing and has allowed us to introduce ourselves more in this area and appreciate open source technologies. I've been learning a lot for my thesis and used that knowledge to help others to work with this type of technology. We mostly work with open data repositories but with a more sophisticated device like the Ultracortex + our Ganglion we might be able to work with our own data. Here you can find a little about us and some of our projects:
https://uieucb.github.io/uie.github.io/ntxucb.html
We are also working on short video lessons in Spanish for people that is new to this type of field. These videos are currently under development and are being uploaded to our YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCg2IzkjD42ztbj930w8_kQ
We want to spread awareness in all the Latam community about neurotechnology and we could use this device to help others learn and appreciate the benefits of neurotech as a field, develop bigger projects and make some of our dreams come true. We are very ambitious, and work day and night to achieve our goals. If you are interested we can cover the shipping expenses as these are far less than acquiring the system as a whole.
Please let me know if you would like to have more information about myself, the team or the projects.
Best regards!
Manuel Illanes
I've decided to send it to Manuel. (rmib200) Thanks, everyone!
Taran, thanks so much for your generosity in sending on hardware. We might mention to Manuel @rmib200, that he may need to update the firmware on the Cyton + Dongle. Instructions for this are on the 'docs' site. Since this Cyton was from the Ultracortex 3 era, it is possible that the firmware may or may not run with the latest GUI.
I altered the thread title to add that the gift is complete.
William