Thermocouple

GrahamCousensGrahamCousens Drew University

Hello. I'm looking for a way to use a K-type thermocouple to monitor nasal temperature. Has anyone tried this before or have an idea how to do it? Is it possible to attach an i2c thermocouple amplifier (e.g., MCP9600) to the Cyton board and feed the signal into one of the front-end channels? Thank you.

Comments

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    Graham, hi.

    Since temperature changes so slowly, there is little advantage in having it tightly coupled to the EEG data stream. An easier approach would be to use a separate Arduino, attached through a 2nd serial port.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=read+temperature+arduino

    This arduino would periodically read the temp, then output as an ascii text string on the serial port.

    Regards, William

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    There is this other type of three wire analog temp sensor:

    https://learn.adafruit.com/tmp36-temperature-sensor/using-a-temp-sensor

    In that case you could connect Vdd (3.3V) and ground to the sensor, and run the analog output to one of the 3 Aux channel analog mode pins on the Cyton. Then apply the conversion formulas shown. The Aux data is accessed by turning on Analog mode.

    https://docs.openbci.com/docs/02Cyton/CytonSDK#board-mode

    William

  • GrahamCousensGrahamCousens Drew University

    Thanks so much WIlliam.
    I'm using a Max31855 thermocouple-to-digital converter, which works well on my arduino. I can't quite get it to work on the Cyton board.
    The converter has the following pins, which I've connected to the Cyton board in this way:
    Max31855 Vin not connected
    3vo to Cyton VDCC
    Ground to Cyton ground
    Do to Cyton D11
    CS to Cyton CS2
    CLK to Cyton CLK
    I'm recording with digital read on, and am hoping find some evidence of temperature samples in the datafile.

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    Graham, this is the data sheet,

    https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX31855.pdf

    This is an SPI bus device. You will need to connect up the other SPI lines, and use another chip select. Then you will also need to mod to firmware. Sounds like a lot of work.

    The Cyton analog and digital modes are for reading a single input pin in either analog-voltage, or digital-level (0V or 3.3V).

    William

  • GrahamCousensGrahamCousens Drew University

    I don't want a lot of work. :)
    Is there a way to get the temperature readings from the arduino into the data file collected by the Cyton? One possibility might be to use a DAC breakout on the Arduino and feed the voltage signal into an analog channel?

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    This was the previously mentioned 3 wire device: Vdd, Gnd, analog output.

    https://learn.adafruit.com/tmp36-temperature-sensor/using-a-temp-sensor

  • GrahamCousensGrahamCousens Drew University

    I noticed that, but the issue is that I need to position it in the nose to measure faint changes in respiration. The thermocouple is a good sensor for this purpose. I really appreciate your comments. Very useful.

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    You could see if you can find an "interface chip", that plugs to a thermocouple on one side, and outputs an analog voltage on the other.

    I guess you are looking for size and form factor. But the Adafruit TMP36 is not that large. Could be mounted on some type of carrier / holder under nose.

    If you are really looking to track breath movement, I believe there are some techniques to do that.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=arduino+breath+sensor

  • GrahamCousensGrahamCousens Drew University

    I'm going to try the way that involves a lot of work. Is there sample code on reading from and SPI device through the OpenBCI platform?

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    https://docs.openbci.com/docs/assets/CytonImages/OBCI_V3_32bit-Schematic.jpg

    Left column mid page shows accelerometer SPI wiring. You can search firmware for how it is read. You need to use a separate chip select line from any other device.

  • GrahamCousensGrahamCousens Drew University

    Ok. Thanks William.

  • wjcroftwjcroft Mount Shasta, CA

    Conventional way to read respiration reliably, is with a chest strap that varies resistance with the the amount of stretch. I believe these are also sold on the web. Sounds more comfortable than a thermocouple sticking up the nose.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=respiration+chest+strap+arduino

  • GrahamCousensGrahamCousens Drew University

    That's true. However, this particular application requires temperature (as a proxy for airflow) measurement from different locations within the nasal cavity. This might differ from chest strap output right after swallowing, which is the period we're interested in.

  • GrahamCousensGrahamCousens Drew University

    Thanks again for your help. I'll let you know how it goes.

  • GrahamCousensGrahamCousens Drew University

    FYI: An analog thermocouple amplifier (AD8495) worked best for this application, where the highest degree of temporal resolution is required.

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