Device capable of alpha theta neurofeedback / meditation?

bfranz

Hello,  

I'm new to the world of EEG biofeedback and have only experienced neurofeedback as a patient. I have completed approximately 40 sessions of infra low frequency training (Othmer protocol) which was incredibly helpful, but I've found alpha theta neurofeedback to be the most beneficial and mood boosting overall. I would love to have the capacity to do this on my own at home, as the cost can be exorbitant with frequent in-office sessions. Are any of the OpenBCI devices suitable for meditative practices, and if so, are there affordable software programs that I may use to establish a better meditative practice? Bear in mind that I'm not particularly tech-savvy, so if there is a high likelihood that I may create adverse outcomes for myself by flying solo, I would truly appreciate knowing this beforehand. Thanks in advance! 

wjcroft

@bfranz, hi.

Here are some related posts on neurofeedback, using the search box or advanced search in the right column,

http://openbci.com/forum/index.php?p=/search&Search=neurofeedback

The current OpenBCI and new Ganglion will be supported by programs such as neuromore, BrainBay, BioEra, etc. All of these are what are called VPL's, Visual Programming Languages. Which let you setup circuit diagrams that control signal processing flows. The 'program' is typically called a 'design'; neuromore calls these 'classifiers'.

The Cygnet that you have used for ILF and alpha-theta, is actually running BioEra underneath the Cygnet user interface. Many alpha-theta designs also exist for Bioexplorer, another VPL. These can be easily ported to neuromore, BrainBay or BioEra.

Alpha-theta designs are typically single channel at O1 or O2 or Pz. They are rewarding for simultaneous alpha and theta production, and sometimes signal when those amplitudes "cross-over" or become the same.

https://www.google.com/search?q=peniston+alpha-theta

William

bfranz

Thank you, William. After scavenging the Internet I saw that you had mentioned Les Fehmi's open focus protocol to someone inquiring about EEG directed meditation. Would this protocol be compatible with the new Ganglion? Do you know if BrainBay would support this protocol?

wjcroft

Open Focus is a 5 channel alpha synchrony protocol. At Fpz Cz Oz T3 T4. I have an Open Focus design for BrainBay. Ganglion board has 4 channels. Original OpenBCI boards are 8 channel.

A related 4 channel synchrony protocol would be at F3 F4 P3 P4, which would fit on the Ganglion. This is more related to what Hardt does. I have a 4 channel design in BioEra (and Bioexplorer for Q-wiz). The 5 channel BrainBay design I mentioned can be easily edited to work with 4 channels vs. 5.

The single or dual channel alpha-theta we discussed previously should work fine on Ganglion or original OpenBCI.

bfranz

If I were to stick with the Ganglion would you recommend the one similar to Hardt's protocol or the edited 4 channel to mimic the 5 channel open focus protocol? Is there anywhere I can find out how to do the edited 4 channel?

wjcroft

BFranz, hi again. 

Your original question about alpha-theta, mentioned that "I've found alpha theta neurofeedback to be the most beneficial and mood boosting overall." The Fehmi and Hardt alpha synchrony protocols are beneficial, but may not give you the effects you are looking for. Certainly it's worthwhile to be able to use a range of protocols, depending on your current situation.

It's easy to modify BrainBay (or other VPL) designs to remove or add elements. It would only take a few minutes to turn the 5 channel synchrony protocol into a 4 channel version. Take a look at one BrainBay tutorial,

https://sites.google.com/site/biofeedbackpages/brainbay-openbci

William

wjcroft

I just emailed you the 5 channel BrainBay design.

fmahia

Hi,
I'm very interested by your brainbay design.
I'd be very grateful if you could send it to me too.

wjcroft

Hi Franck, I suggest you look at this tutorial, which contains a couple BrainBay sample designs.

https://sites.google.com/site/biofeedbackpages/brainbay-openbci

The 5 channel Fehmi / Open Focus design previously mentioned is not a polished or easy to use design. And there are no tutorial instructions. Whereas the tutorial above is at an introductory level for BrainBay. The 5 channel design involves manually 'tuning' or adjusting the weighting of each channel in the total feedback output; as the synchrony training progresses. This is not easy to do. And BrainBay does not have built-in 'slider' adjustment elements; so a less obvious workaround must be employed. The link above is just a one channel alpha reward / beta inhibit design. Which is straightforward to use.

The original subject of this thread was alpha-theta neurofeedback. Which is a completely different neurofeedback than whole brain alpha synchrony. Most of the alpha-theta designs I've seen are somewhat subtle in the way they provide the feedback. The idea being to get simultaneous alpha and theta wave amplitudes to "cross-over" repeatedly. While at the same time using subtle forms of audio feedback that encourage drifting off into a 'twilight' half-awake state. Pete Van Deusen has some good ones in his Brain-Trainer suite.

Regards, William

wjcroft

Pete Van Deusen's Brain-Trainer suite will be released soon for the BioEra app. I estimate within the next couple months. It's currently based on Bioexplorer, which does not support OpenBCI. However BioEra DOES support both Cyton and Ganglion.

Another 'free' VPL app is 'neuromore', which has now been released in open source form. It's possible that there are some existing neuromore alpha-theta designs.

https://www.neuromore.com/open-source
https://github.com/neuromore/studio

wjcroft

The original thread also mentioned 'meditation' neurofeedback, so using the Advanced Search button at upper right:

https://www.google.com/search?as_q=neurofeedback+meditation&as_sitesearch=openbci.com

fmahia

Thank you.
I'm in the process of learning neurofeedback story and all the "classic" designs before exploring other things not only for meditation or stuff like that. It is very exciting to see how much it seams there still possibilities between QEEG, z-score, synchrony, asynchrony and all that can "shape" the brain. Not a big fan of normalization of the brain and, as a therapist, I'd like to promote other ways...

wjcroft

Check out these two Youtube videos on bands and sites trained for various styles of meditation,

https://openbci.com/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/9995/#Comment_9995

DaveG

Hi, I'm also quite new in NFB and trying to decide between the ganglion and cyton to use with brainbay to do several 2 channel protocols.
Can someone tell me which would be best for picking up .5hz on a channel? I can't tell if the cyton's dc coupling is necessary or at least preferable, or if I'd be able to capture that signal on the ganglion?
Also, does someone know if brainbay allows (O1-O2) alpha coherence protocols?
Thank you
-Dave

wjcroft

Dave, hi.

The spec sheet on Ganglion lists a .3 Hz cutoff point. Although I'm not sure how many dB down is the signal at that point. .5 Hz should be passed, although there might be a slight reduction. See,

https://shop.openbci.com/collections/frontpage/products/ganglion-board?variant=13461804483
https://alexandre.barachant.org/blog/2017/03/02/Hands-on-OpenBCI-Ganglion.html
https://openbci.com/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/1257/ganglion-high-pass-filter-problem

All RC high pass filters have a rolloff, as shown in Alexandre's graphs. Note that at the time of his blog in 2017, a circuit correction was made that fixed the issue he noted on all subsequent Ganglion boards.

Cyton has no built in highpass filters. And can record ILF / ISF DC offset fluctuations.

See some references to other VPL apps in this recent thread, including BrainBay considerations. BrainBay can do arbitrary 'synchrony' calculations (by summing filtered channels, say from 8 to 12 Hz). But has no built in 'coherence' calculator. BioEra on the other hand, DOES have a coherence element block. Generally for inter-pair multi-channel biofeedback work, synchrony is adequate. Also you may want to evaluate Pete van Deusen's new BioEra based protocol suite, which should support both Cyton and Ganglion.

https://openbci.com/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/2642/implementing-jeff-tarrants-neuromeditation-focus-protocol

Regards, William